Viena and Windows 10

All about the SoundFont editor Viena
Admin
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Re: Viena and Windows 10

Post by Admin » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:24 pm

Beats me... I have no idea. Must be some random issue that has been fixed in the new test version. I will analyze it. I want to find the bug, if it is/was there.

John Reimer
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:29 pm

Re: Viena and Windows 10

Post by John Reimer » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:20 am

Kenneth,

Late last year I finished what amounted to several years of making soundfont (.sf2) files, all by using various versions of Viena, as they were released. I say, "finished", because I finally achieved results which gave me full satisfaction. For 60 years I have been looking for a pipe organ substitute which would deliver a very close rendition of the sounds I was used to as a young player learning to play on a small tracker pipe organ, where the player is very close to the pipes, and can hear all sorts of details which are not noticeable when listening at a distance. I am very grateful for the part Viena has played in bringing me this success.

You will recall the problems I had with the more recent versions of Viena, in that corruption of the samples was occurring when the Purge function was employed and then the file was saved. I had a work-around for this very serious defect: I did all my work using the most recent version, which it did very well. I'm sure that I have made it clear that a major part of my work was to use existing Instruments as a "template", and to import new samples which were then reassigned to the splits as needed. At the final stage, I would do a purge by using an old version of Viena, namely 0.780. This was my satisfactory work-around, although I acknowledge that it is not a satisfactory solution to you, the creator of Viena.

I have just tried version 1010A, and regretfully have to report that the sample corruption is still happening, when I do a purge and then a save. There is another bug, which I have to report. In the tree view at the left, clicking on the "+" squares opens up the Instrument view, but clicking on the "-" squares does not close the view. A double-click on the Instrument name, does however close the view.

John Reimer

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Re: Viena and Windows 10

Post by Admin » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:47 pm

Thanks John,
I cannot count the number of hours - if not days, weeks - I have put into trying to reproduce your issue with "purge and save". No luck. Without a means of reproducing the flaw there is no way to fix it either. Sorry to say. I count on someone else having the same - or similar - problem to contact me for further information. I'm sure there is someone out there although I do not think Viena is used much any longer (if ever...).
In the tree view at the left, clicking on the "+" squares opens up the Instrument view, but clicking on the "-" squares does not close the view.
THIS is one I can reproduce - and fix.

John Reimer
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:29 pm

Re: Viena and Windows 10

Post by John Reimer » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:49 pm

Kenneth,

I can't help thinking that the Purge problem is created by what I am doing AHEAD of the Purge - namely importing new samples and reassigning them to existing splits. I don't know anything about the mechanics of what Viena does except I do realise that its end result is to produce a text file. But I am sure that there are some kinds of memory allocations going on during the process, and in my ignorance, perhaps, I suspect that it is there where some kind of dislocation is occurring.

It strikes me that it is not satisfactory to release new versions of Viena where this problem still exists, and I do think that the Purge function should be withdrawn until the problem is solved. Or if not, then some kind of warning ought to be issued, that the Purge function can "sometimes" misbehave, and that users should make sure that backups are ALWAYS created in order to avoid having complete disasters. You could even leave a version such as 0.780 accessible on your website, if people want to make use of this completely reliable workaround - namely leaving purging till the soundfont is almost finished, and at that point make use of the earlier version for that final step. The other strategy I got up to when working on "new" presets where the import sample/purge method was in use, was to do that work within a "new, separate, small" soundfont file, and to copy that preset to the main soundfont which was being constructed, only when the new preset was finished.

Whether or not people around the world are using Viena, I don't think you have any way of knowing. I have to face this with the soundfonts and dispositions (VPO files) I have produced for jOrgan users, with much effort on my part, over a period of some years. There is very little feedback, whether negative or positive.

John Reimer

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Re: Viena and Windows 10

Post by Admin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:37 am

John,
Here is a new test version:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/56rsuem4sd95u ... B.rar?dl=0

Now, I have used the purge functions without problems certainly many hundred times, so I cannot say that there is something problematic with it. It is in fact a ridiculously simple function. As I have never been able to cause one single problem using it I cannot see that there is a reason to warn people about it.

Now, this new version fixes the tree view issue, but it also contains a new function: "Compare 1&2" on the File Info page. I did this test today:
I loaded a simple soundfont (actually one you had sent me earlier, called t1) with one instrument and 30 splits. Then I added 30 new samples and replaced all samples in the 30 splits with new ones. Then I saved the file as t1a and made a copy of it called t1b. I exited Viena and got in again. Loaded t1a into slot 1 and t1b into slot 2. I pressed the "Compare 1&2" button to to make sure that t1a is the same as t1b. Below the "Compare 1&2" button is a memo window that will spell out the findings. No errors were found, of course. Then I issued the Purge command. Run "Compare 1&2" again - no errors found. Finally I saved the purged file under the name t1c. Exited Viena, started again and opened t1a in slot 1 and t1c in slot 2. Run "Compare 1&2" again - no errors found. Hence, simply adding samples and replacing them in splits does not cause Purge to misbehave. There must be something else which I do not know about. Please try and reproduce this issue. The t1 soundfont is included in the RAR file.

I suggest we continue this thread using Private messages, as before.

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